In the Media: Navigating the Challenges of Post-Completion Sales

Noemi Guttmann and Rylee Ritchie recently joined on the REB Podcast Network to discuss their role in marketing post-completion builds. 

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Intro (00:01):
This is a momentum media production. The top 100 agents are the best of the best listing and selling more than any other agent in Australia. These are the practises, actions, and beliefs of the most successful agents in Australian real estate rule, honest and completely uncut. Welcome to REB's Secrets of the Top 100 Agents.

Juliet Helmke, REB (00:29):
Hello and [00:00:30] welcome to a brand new episode of Secrets of the Top 100 Agents. I'm your host for this instalment, Juliet Helmke, editor of REB. Now, today we're delving into a topic that is perhaps not very well understood, but certainly important, particularly with the country looking to increase building and up the amount of density in some of our major cities, and that involves a lot of apartment building and a lot of apartments coming onto the market. Noemi Goodman and Rylee Ritchie Sales Agents with [00:01:00] Ayre Real Estate are joining me today. They have 40 years of real estate experience between them, including stints at 1stCity, The Agency, and Black Diamondz. They're now moving into an exciting role with Ayre Real Estate that builds on their expertise, which is focusing on sales strategies that move new apartments that remain unsold post-completion. Noemi and Rylee, thank you so much for joining me today.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (01:23):
Thank you, Juliet. Thank you for having us.

Juliet Helmke, REB (01:26):
I'm so excited to have this conversation as we were just talking about, there's [00:01:30] so much happening in this sector that you're involved with and we're going to get into all of the nitty gritty of that in just a moment. But we feel it's really nice for our listeners when we have these conversations just to get a little bit of the sense of the background of the people that they're listening to. So I was wondering before we get into all of that, if each of you would give me just a little bit of insight into how you got into real estate. Noemi, perhaps we'll start with you.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (01:54):
Okay. So I went to university after school studying law, [00:02:00] and three and a half years into my degree, I decided law is not for me, and I decided to pursue my passion with food, and I opened a cafe from where I went into catering, where I was supplying health food stores and juice bars with a range of food. That's what I was passionate about. That didn't pay very well. There was a lot of effort and very little financial reward. Some would say that I was [00:02:30] actually losing money. So I thought, well, I'm very disciplined and I have a really hard work ethic. Where can I apply this? And also very rewarded financially. So I thought I'm going to give real estate a go.

Juliet Helmke, REB (02:46):
Wow.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (02:46):
I started my career on the Gold Coast at Ray White Surfers Paradise where I worked for six years, which was a really great training ground. I don't think anyone I sold for made money. [00:03:00] So I learned very early in my career how to have difficult conversations because a lot of the people were distressed sales because it was a GFC, and I had to tell them pretty much how much money they were losing on every sale. So that's where my career started.

Juliet Helmke, REB (03:17):
Rylee, we'd love to hear from you. Tell us a little bit about your background.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (03:21):
Thank you. I have a very different background to Noemi. I actually have a science background, which I studied at Sydney University, and [00:03:30] I worked in medical science industry after that and drug trials. Started a family, I had young children at home and that's when a friend phoned me and said, why don't you think about getting into real estate? So I stepped in at that stage and in various roles from property management, eventually got into sales and project sales, and I love it. I love my journey.

Juliet Helmke, REB (03:55):
Oh, that's amazing. We love to hear how people come with backgrounds, with particular [00:04:00] skills that really inform their journey and help them excel in this industry. It is one where we see people of all different experiences coming into to search for what both of you have kind of talked about Noemi and Rylee, the financial stability, a job that sort of suits where they are in their life and having a family and all of that sort of thing. So I think that's really, really interesting now. But I would love to hear, because the two of you are something of a duo, [00:04:30] you have this really interesting thing that you have going on with the two of you. You work together in a really strategic way, but tell us about where that started. How did the two of you link up?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (04:41):
So Rylee and I started at 1stCity Real Estate. We joined the projects team at the same time. We were very, very fortunate that they happened to sit us next to each other and Rylee had a listing for a new build or a new project in Ji, [00:05:00] and she'd successfully sold one before I joined the team. And then she said, oh, hey, why don't you help me on this sale? And we really clicked, we're total opposites.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (05:15):
And we went from there. So we brought very different backgrounds, experiences and skillset to our partnership and our clients have just loved our strong female team and our [00:05:30] successful results.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (05:33):
Sorry.

Juliet Helmke, REB (05:33):
Go on. No, go.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (05:34):
We really, really compliment each other. We really are total opposite to each other and we balance it really well. Yeah, we really balance it well and we split everything right down the middle. There's never been a question of who does how much they do. I think in real estate, more women could kind of buddy up with each other and support each other in the industry because we do make a powerful [00:06:00] team together and a lot of our clients are really blown away by the energy we bring as a duo as opposed to a standalone agent.

Juliet Helmke, REB (06:09):
Oh, a dream team. We love to hear that. And we're particularly keen to continue that conversation talking about how partnerships are really a way that some agents can excel in their field think that's so important. Look, we will just take a quick break. Listeners stay with us. We'll have more from Noemi and Rylee after a quick break. [00:06:30] Welcome back to this episode of Secrets of the Top 100 Agents where I'm joined by Noemi Gutman and Rylee Ritchie of Ayre Real Estate. Now, before the break, we were talking about how the two of you linked up and formed this team that is now on quite an exciting journey, but you were explaining to us how when you first began working together, you were kind of in that sort of projects field, [00:07:00] looking at new builds and figuring out how the two of you and your complimentary working strategies could work together to excel there. Now I know that since that time you have kind of moved on from that and we've given our listeners a little taste about what we're going to be talking about. So it's not just about projects. You've actually carved out an even more specific niche in that area. Can you tell us about the progression from what you were doing then to now what you are doing in your current focus?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (07:30):
[00:07:30] Yes. Both Rylee aand I have worked in different parts of real estate. We've both been residential agents where we are focused on the auction process. So we identified that there was a lot of built apartments that just sat stagnant in the market. Sometimes they sit there for years. I had already sold down 22 apartments in Erskineville prior to meeting Rylee. I really enjoyed that process. However, what I had [00:08:00] realised that we could really, really have done that better, and I then had a relationship with a developer who had apartments that were remaining in Bondi Junction. He had 15 apartments that he had tried selling with several agents over a two year period. I think maybe one apartment sold in two years. I really chased that listing daily. It was together. [00:08:30] We watched the sales. We were obsessed with it. We knew we were so passionate, we just knew we could get the job done. He finally gave us the opportunity and we sold down all of the apartments in quite a short time. He's our biggest fan. He's also been really active in trying to get us some more business, and so thankful we came to him a new strategy and we got the job done. And [00:09:00] he said to us just last week, I'm so grateful that you were so tenacious that you girls just hung in there and you were relentless in pursuing these listings. So now we're really honed the strategy. We really understand what is required and we're ready to launch. We're ready to hit the market, roll this out, and we're now about to approach our next project.

Juliet Helmke, REB (09:25):
That is so exciting. And so as we talked about, you've really created this niche [00:09:30] in that post -completion market. You are Sydney-based. You're looking at this big city that has a lot going on. There's certainly that stock there that, as you say, it can sit around. I can imagine that from a developer's perspective, it must be so challenging when you have put all of this effort into these projects. You've gotten certainly a great amount of success, but there's just this lingering element and you've tried all of your [00:10:00] options and you're not sure what to do. Can you talk us through what some of those challenges are that they're up against in that sort of post-completion landscape?

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (10:11):
I think a big mistake a developer can make is keeping when they're coming up close to completion and they're going to submit to get their occupation certificate, and they have a certain amount of apartments or homes sitting there, sometimes half a building. The biggest [00:10:30] use the same strategy. They often allow several agents to come on board and list all of the remaining stock. These agents use old digital images or CGI images. They don't really dedicate a lot of time.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (10:44):
They don't dedicate time. They also maintain the display suite when there' are all these built apartments, they're sitting in a display suite

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (10:53):
And they can confuse buyers. When a buyer does engage with them, they're just sending out standard price lists, old [00:11:00] floor plans, which is quite confusing for the buyer. There's no real dedicated vision on how to sell the remaining apartments.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (11:07):
You need to have one agent who is in control of the listing, who maintains the value of the project because they're sending out the same message. It's a consistent message. When you're listing with multiple agents, which is often the case on post completion, the message becomes confused because there's so [00:11:30] many agents delivering a different story. But what we've also identified is that post completion is a whole different skill set to project sales, and it's a whole different skill set to residential sales.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (11:46):
So yeah, a lot of agents don't understand the skillset on how to sell a completed brand new home or apartment and what the challenges are. And it's very different to both off the plan [00:12:00] where you're really selling a dream, a future home in a display suite where it's a very controlled environment and they've got their CGIs and they walk you through and they create this dream. And it's very different to a standard residential sale, which most residential agents are just used to walking into a home and they're creating a marketing campaign in an auction. Where as we need to know about brand new homes, knowledge about the builder, the developer, the architect, [00:12:30] what were their previous projects? Buyers will want to know because they're very sceptical and they do their research. Is the builder and the developer, is it one entity or are they different entities? They need to know. They'll ask us, were there any delays in the construction?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (12:48):
They're really savvy. There needs to be full transparency because everything can be researched. And the buyers in this sector of the market, they research everything. There's so [00:13:00] much scepticism around new builds that they've got to go on and check with the building commissioner, what was the delay in? Why was there a delay in the occupation certificate? What was the delay in the construction period? The questions that come out, you've got to be all around it.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (13:19):
You've got to really understand. You have to be on your toes. You have to be transparent and knowledgeable. We also have a high level of understanding of finishes, of levels, of finishes [00:13:30] for different properties, appliances, different design cues the buyer will need to know. We also have an understanding from our experience and what the questions that come to us from buyers, we really need to know about the Planning Act council regulations. We get buyers asking things like, why didn't they extend the balcony? Why isn't there another window here? And we need to have the knowledge to understand the developer's constraints in building.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (13:59):
Didn't they have the council? [00:14:00] Why the council have put the constraints on the developer. You can't just go and build a four-bedroom apartment. They have to go by the legislations that are in place, the codes.

Juliet Helmke, REB (14:12):
Absolutely. And I'm sure buyers would be so aware of that. I think you bring up such an interesting point, right, that the market is different because the buyer is different, and it's something that we kind of forget to talk about sometimes in sales. It's like it all comes back to who are the buyers, [00:14:30] as you sort of say, you can't sell them the same product that's been on the market for two years as a off the plan bill because they've seen that before. They've been given the option. So it's about carving out that space, and I just think it's such an interesting area and really cool to see people delving into a niche and creating strategies around that. Now, you've given us a really good example of what that landscape is. We'd love to hear a little [00:15:00] bit about how you function in this role of selling those particular type of properties. So how do you come in and what are those relationships like?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (15:11):
So what we realised was that there was all this energy, there was all this momentum. When you're launching as a project, sometimes that project takes two years to be completed, and in that time, the sales start to drop down the momentum, the energy that's dwindled. And [00:15:30] what we've realised is that on completion, it needs the same momentum, it needs the same energy, enthusiasm, the dedication. It needs an agent who's going to be committed to the, just like the project sales team are committed in the beginning, post completion energy, the agents with a different skillset need to be dedicated to the project, giving them their full focus, that this is their primary focus and they're completely dedicated on this project. We're not residential agents. We're not, A [00:16:00] lot of the time the residential agents will list a project hoping they might get one or two sold, but they're not giving it any attention. (16:08):
They're not giving it any time. There's no real vision really. At end of the day. It's just if we make a sale, happy days, they've got their listings, they've got their auction, and then most of the time what happens is that the developer has maintained the listing with the project agents who sit in a display suite waiting for the buyer [00:16:30] to come along. This needs to have new marketing plan, new photos, new life bred into it. It needs the agents to give it all their time just as you would would with the project itself, but definitely with a new set marketing.

Juliet Helmke, REB (16:48):
And that's so important because you've touched on this already before at this point in time, maintaining the quality of that build is so important. Tell us a little bit about [00:17:00] what the threat is there, if that quality isn't maintained by the attention of the agent, of the person in charge of sales.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (17:08):
So timing is everything. So the longer the property, sometimes these properties sit on, there's just so much built properties sitting on the market at the moment. Post completion, half a building will be sitting there. The longer that it's sitting there, the more difficult it's going to become to sell. So it's a really passive, what we've realised is it's a really [00:17:30] passive way of selling, but we need to be more aggressive. We need to have a strategy. We need to give it the energy that it deserves. I mean, they're sitting there, their properties for sale. There's a market there.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (17:42):
We're really mindful on timing and approaching the developer before they actually complete it, because the change of strategy needs to happen to completion prior to completion. So they don't slip over that where they've got their occupation certificate and they're sitting there

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (18:00):
[00:18:00] With the same stock, it looks like, rather than looking like they've struggled to sell half a building with our strategy, we would remove it from the market a few months prior to completion. And then the buyers are told that this is part of the strategy that the developer has strategically held onto half a building to sell on completion if he wanted to sell half prior to completion, now he's selling. It gives them more control,(18:27):

And the speed of the sale process is much faster. [00:18:30] So yeah, timing is everything for a developer. This fits into his profits. If he's sitting there with the increased building costs, which is really crippling developers at the moment in particular over the last few years, the length of time it takes to get approval through council, again, that's eating into their holding costs. Now they're sitting on the market for half a year, one year, two years with half a building. Their profits are just completely, it puts too much pressure on them. Then [00:19:00] they start increasing their prices because they've been sitting on the market for so long and now they're out of touch with the market. So with our strategy, because of our background, we understand the full process from dirt to key handover. Rylee and and I understand that process because worked in all facets of development and in project sales, residential sales. So we've just come up with this strategy and we know it works and we're ready to roll it out.

Juliet Helmke, REB (19:29):
It's such [00:19:30] a fascinating, the way you described the ecosystem is so much more complex than I think a lot of people would imagine, because that point of if a developer has half their apartments unsolved, that's also a problem for the people who have bought in because they want to know that the quality of what they have invested in is being maintained, and that will directly inform how they feel about the developer and the reviews and the reputation of the developer and of [00:20:00] the person who's been involved in those sales. So I think it's incredibly complex, and it's really interesting to hear how the two of you have carved out this niche because you understand it so well. We can all really, I think, take some insight from that of further and further understanding your buyers and your sellers, right?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (20:20):
Yes. Also, Juliet, the longer the properties sit on the market, the scepticism starts to creep in amongst the buyers. They start to ask us questions [00:20:30] like, well, why is it still on the market? Why is it taking so long for these to sell? That agent said, when we've worked on other projects where there were other agents in the beginning, why did this agent say this? There's that lack of trust because as it is, as an agent, we're already starting on the back foot. The buyers don't trust agents. They don't trust developers, they don't trust new builds. [00:21:00] So there's a lot of, we really need to work on gaining the buyers trust in all of these areas, and that requires a skillset in itself. We are very careful with our dialogue with buyers, and we're also very much about building the relationship. Rylee and I, we really connect with the buyers. We'll take a lot of time with them. It's not kind of like they're disposable. Let's just, when you get a buyer, you hold onto that buyer.

Juliet Helmke, REB (21:27):
Absolutely. And coming back to that [00:21:30] message that relationships are really the building block of success. I mean, we could have this conversation till the cows come home certainly, but it's something that's important to stress now, some really great insight there. Listeners, we just have to take a quick break. Stay with us. We'll be back in one second with more from Noemi and Rylee, welcome back to this episode of Secrets of [00:22:00] the Top 100 Agents. Now, before the break, Noemi and Rylee, we were talking about that element of trust and how important it is in building relationships with buyers, with building relationships with the sellers as well, and about the full ecosystem of selling this type of properties you sell, which is post completion after a project has been completed. Now in the market that you're in, Sydney, we know that there is a lot of this going on, and so we'd love to hear [00:22:30] a little bit from you about what you see happening in the market right now and what really the opportunities are to make sure that we have those strong relationships, that we have that trust as much as possible, flowing around to make sure that the new apartments that are coming onto the market are really having their best chance of success.(22:50):
So how do you see the market in Sydney? What are the opportunities and the exciting factors there for you right now?

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (22:57):
I think some of [00:23:00] the new builds in Sydney are spectacular. There's some great opportunities for us as agents

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (23:06):
There's definitely great opportunities for us. There's a few that have sat there that we've just identified recently. We've got our eye on the pulse. Of course, we follow the projects. Yeah. There's in particular one that I've had my eye on for two years, and there's a substantial number of apartments sitting there vacant.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (23:30):
[00:23:30] And there's a huge appetite for new builds with buyers as renovations, building homes becomes more and more expensive,.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (23:39):
That renovation and flipping, that's just not affordable anymore. It's more the building costs have gone up so much that buying a home, renovating it, which was a thing of the past now, because it is just not profitable anymore.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (23:58):
And I think it's moved from, [00:24:00] we always see a lot of downsizes wanting new apartments, new homes, and that's actually now extending to young families because they're also seeing the cost of renovating something. They're actually better off going into a new apartment where everything's done, and it's our job to really create that confidence within that. They're buying a fantastic piece of Sydney, something new quality where they're not having to do all of the maintenance that they're doing on an old home.

Juliet Helmke, REB (24:27):
Yeah. It's that ease of living, isn't it? I really see [00:24:30] Sydney particularly at the forefront of this switch to higher density living people embracing it. I mean, I am a Sydney sider myself, just to get that out there. I love this city. I have not always lived here though. I've also, I've lived in Brisbane. I've lived in New York City as well, and something that was so interesting coming from New York to Sydney was coming from a culture that is so apartment focused and then over here seeing more of that transition take place where people are embracing [00:25:00] the higher density and the ease that comes with apartments. So I certainly expect to see that continuing. I would imagine that you two do as well.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (25:09):
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Juliet Helmke, REB (25:12):
And tell me, now, look, I know that you have so many plans. There are lots of exciting things happening for the two of you, and that particularly comes with this change that has just taken place in your team. You've recently joined Ayre Real Estate. Yes. Can you tell me a little bit about that decision to link up with Air and what [00:25:30] you're excited about working with that brand?

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (25:33):
Oh, there's so much to be excited about. Juliet, really.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (25:36):
Amazing. Both Noemi and I have known Craig Donohue for a long time, and I worked with Craig many years ago, and Craig has been a really good friend of mine. And Noemi started a conversation because we found the niche in something.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (25:55):
We're saying, well, he's watched, I'm really close friends with Craig. So a lot of the time [00:26:00] actually, when Rylee and I would have a challenge, we'd bounce it off Craig. We'd be like, oh. I'd say, oh, I'm going to ring Craig and bounce this off him and see what he has to say, and he'd always give us such constructive advice. So that was our go-to.

Juliet Helmke, REB (26:16):
That is so, so cool.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (26:18):
That's been for the last few years. And then Craig and I used to always joke that we'd end up working together at some stage. It was just a running joke. That's become a reality.

Juliet Helmke, REB (26:30):
[00:26:30] Look. Yeah. Now here you are. That's great. So I'm sure you have lots of exciting plans to embark.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (26:37):
Yeah we do. Look, we're very excited because this brand is very considered and very dynamic. Their marketing is of the highest level. There's definitely nothing cookie cutter about Ayre Real Estate and Rylee, and I really love this. It's really refreshing.

Rylee Ritchie, Ayre Real Estate (26:54):
When we met with Craig and Adrian to really discuss the jump on board, I was [00:27:00] blown away just on their knowledge, their encouragement, their support for what our vision was, and we felt like it was just a good fit.-

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (27:11):
And their vision and values, I dunno whether I've just said they're very, very progressive. We definitely felt an instant alignment with them. We also wanted to join a really fast -paced growing brand and a team that genuinely works with each other and they all have the abundance mindset, [00:27:30] and that's just something. Rylee and I traditionally always reached out to agents where we were selling. If we were selling it out of area, we'd reach out to local agents saying, look, we'll go 50/ 50 with you. We're always offering half our commission. No one would've to take us up on it, but we're in an environment where they really encourage that. I think it just feels amazing to have two directors that have shown so much for us to join. What's [00:28:00] most important is they've really followed through on their word. There's not much of that in the real estate industry unfortunately. It's really refreshing to have these men that have really backed everything they said they would do.

Juliet Helmke, REB (28:17):
That is great to hear. It really sounds like the dream team have found their launching pad. We have and look to hear stories of, as you say, having had this relationship for quite some time. Just the support that's [00:28:30] come out of that. We really value hearing about how real estate professionals are supporting each other, even when now you are in direct business, but even when you're not, and it's something that I think we don't talk enough about in this industry because it is happening, isn't it? Perhaps it's rare to find, but it does happen.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (28:52):
Traditionally you just get put behind a desk and every office has [00:29:00] the right intention. They say they're going to support you and so forth, but really in the day, you're on your own two feet from just, even just from our discussions with them, everything just happened so quickly and it wasn't just a bunch of words, the actions, it was all implemented. We are really excited.

Juliet Helmke, REB (29:23):
And I'm excited for you. I could see how you found up space that's going to really support these exciting things [00:29:30] that you have in front of you and support this strategy, which look, to be honest, is important to me for the city that I live in. I want to see vibrant, bustling, new buildings, filled with people who are happy with their new homes that they're living in, and I could see how what you're doing is quite an important part of that. So thank you both for joining me today. I've so appreciated having this conversation.

Noemi Guttman, Ayre Real Estate (29:54):
No, we're so grateful. Thank you so much, Juliet. Thank you.

Juliet Helmke, REB (29:58):
This has been wonderful. I'm sure our listeners [00:30:00] have gotten a lot out of it as well, but that is the end of our show. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please like or review us on whatever platform you're using to listen in on. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out at editor@realestatebusiness.com au.com au. Stay up to date with the latest on our website and subscribe@realestatebusiness.com au and be sure to check us out on social media, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and X. Thank you for listening. We'll be back soon [00:30:30] with another episode of REBs Secrets of the Top 100 Agents.

Disclaimer (30:36):
The information featured in this podcast is generally in nature and does not take into consideration your financial situation or individual needs and should not be relied upon. Before making any investment, insurance, tax, property, or financial planning decision, you should consult a licenced professional who can advise whether your decision is appropriate for you. Guests appearing on this podcast may have a commercial relationship with the companies mentioned.